Here is a transcript (not the full) between a discussion on homosexuality between our resident atheist, Ben Tan and our editor, defensedefumer who is Christian on the views of homosexuality, some time ago in March. (Sorry being a non-professional blog, we tend to be rather late with documents). I, the 198, was the mediator.
the 198: Hello boss! Glad you could join us!
defensedefumer: It's a pleasure to be here.
Ben Tan: Great to see you!
the 198: Let's get straight to the point-- what are your views on homosexuality? Ben, you first.
Ben Tan: It's a lifestyle choice-- people should be allowed to do whatever they want, whenever they want as long as they do not hurt anybody. And I see no wrong in homosexuality.
defensedefumer: I want to be honest about this. I think homosexuality is a sin. No more than lying, stealing or adultery is a sin though.
the 198: Why do you see it as wrong?
defensedefumer: Because the Bible tells me so! Well, it is because it is my firm belief that marriage should be between a man and a woman as stated in Genesis 2:24. Even Paul affirmed it in Romans 1.
Ben Tan: So homosexuals are sinners and deserve to be in hell?
defensedefumer: No more than I myself deserve to be in hell. That's why Jesus had to die for everyone. And Jesus himself was critical of the sin, rather than the sinner. A proper church should welcome the homosexual but not accept the act of homosexuality.
Ben Tan: Ok, fine, I don't want to debate with you for the issue of morality in the Bible. It's another issue for another time.
the 198: It's pretty clear that Ben derives his morality from his philosophy while you get yours from the Bible. Next question-- isn't the view that homosexuality is bad outdated?
Ben Tan: Yes it has. One thing good about atheism is that we have our moral values updated with the times, and we don't adhere to anything but ourselves.
defensedefumer: My stand is that moral values don't change with time. If something is wrong then, why should it be right now?
Ben Tan: Wasn't your Bible written more than 1000 years ago? Homosexuality was offensive then, and it was taboo in society. Now we see that people are becoming more liberal, and we should drop such obselete views.
defensedefumer: Actually, homosexuality was quite common among the pagan worshippers in Rome at that time. However, Paul's call was to be counter-cultural then, and I strongly believe that our call is to be counter-cultural now.
the 198: So in a weird way, the more things change, the more they stay the same?
(All laugh)
the 198: I personally am quite surprised how friendly you two are to each other.
Ben Tan: defensedefumer is one of the few I can trust to be straight with me, and the reverse is true. I respect his views, no matter how wrong they are.
defensedefumer: I respect his, no matter how right I am.
(All laugh)
the 198: Ok, last question. Do you think homosexuality is biological or psychological?
Ben Tan : I think it involves a bit of everything, as do most things in life, such as height, which involves both genes and the environment. As such, it is unfair to blame someone who was born with a certain personality. It's like blaming a Chinese for having small eyes!
defensedefumer: I feel that you're jumping the gun. From what I have read, most reports that indicate that homosexuality is due to genetics is ususally politically-motivated. I feel that most cases are psychological. Even if it is genetic, no one said following Jesus would be easy. Because Christians are saved by grace, we are compelled to take up of our cross and follow Him as mentioned in Matthew 16.
the 198: So it involves some level of sacrifice?
defensedefumer: In a way yes. But we don't make sacrifices to get to God. We recognise that we are sinners, and Christ died for us while we were yet sinners to reconcile God with man. And therefore, after experiencing true grace, we willingly follow Him, no matter the cost.
In addition, I think that Ben was 'jumping the gun' because he equated homosexuality and racism together. One is a lifestyle choice, while the other cannot be changed at all.
Ben Tan: You know, I was quite surprised to not hear you talk about the negative effects of homosexuality, such as the soceital breakdown, destruction of families and the increased spread of HIV.
defensedefumer: Well, my knowledge of these issues is admittedly poor.
Ben Tan: And yet you agreed to this discussion.
defensedefumer: I meant to say that the societal detriments are controversial, while the spread of STDs (sexually-transmitted diseases) is well-documented. But I do have have numbers to throw at you. Even if somehow homosexuality is beneficial, I will take God at His word. His word is not something one can selectively pick and choose.
Ben Tan: Unlike atheists, whose thought processes are adaptable.
the 198: Thanks for airing those points fairly and frankly. But that's all the time we have!
Ben Tan: Your welcome.
defensedefumer: Thanks dude. Hope to meet up soon!
the 198
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